美齡アントニア // 미령 ([info]rosesnchaos) wrote,
@ 2006-02-20 12:29:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:languages

Learning languages......
A conversation that transpired between two classmates in Japanese class yesterday...

Classmate A: Eh! I feel hor, my English getting worse after learning Japanese!

Classmate B: Yea lor, yea lor! Aiyo.. you know I read English words with Japanese sounds! Like, beru for "bell", poketto for "pocket"! So funny lah! Speaking like a Japanese now!

Classmate A turned to me and asked, "You leh?? How you feel ah? Your English got get worse or not?

o_O;;;;

MY opinion?

My English did not deteriorate because of my Japanese studies. It deteriorates because I had to listen daily to this hodgepodge language known as Malaysian with its mixture of Malay, Chinese and English with meaningless suffixes such as lor, woh and the infamous lah. It deteriorates because I had to speak like that with most people around me just because they speak like that. It's the speech of lay society, but it's just so common here in Malaysia, even among educated folks. Speaking proper English will come across as being pompous. So it's pretty much of a "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" case, or a more personalized approach, "When in Malaysia, speak as the Malaysians speak".

Admittedly this is what makes us (and our good neighbours, Singaporeans) so unique... our strange speech in informal settings. Manglish/Singlish/whatever-you-wanna-call-it, is so strange that foreigners (especially the angmohs) have great difficulty in deciphering us, making it a "secret language" of a sort.

However, most English-speaking people would dismiss it as BAD ENGLISH. Thus, it doesn't really reflect well on us, because we will be known as a nation of BAD ENGLISH. For people who aspire to go international or have to deal with angmohs, they almost always got stereotyped as being incompetent in English, causing the surprised reactions when they proved to be otherwise. I'm sure many of us had that experience. "Oh my! You say you're from Malaysia? You can speak pretty good English!" Yadda.. yadda.

-__-;;;

Anyway, back to the stereotype of being English-incompetent. Because of our notorious reputation in regularly butchering the Queen's tongue, we are given lesser priority when it comes to, say, international job opportunities in, say, teaching of English. *coughcough* Some of you may guess where I'm heading with this one. It has been found in most cases that in order to teach English to non-English speakers, you have to be a native speaker of English. Well.. how exactly do we define "native speaker"?

You are born into the language in a "white" surrounding? That is, a Caucasian who speaks solely English since birth?

How about a person who was born and raised in an Asian country, educated in English since childhood right up to university and spoke multiple languages, the most used being English?

Obviously, I fit into the second scenario. Adding to that, Malaysia is not just any Asian country. We are exposed to the major languages used in this country since very young of age. Be it the national language Malay, the international language English or the mother tongues of the Chinese and Indian communities, we are given (almost-)equal opportunities to learn them. It's up to the people to choose which they would rather be better at over the others. Unlike in Japan, a homogenous nation with one language for everyone, English is probably as foreign to them as Greek is to us.

For me, English is a fascinating language since I was a wee kid. I love books in English. I enrolled in Mandarin classes when I was 7 or 8, but that didn't rouse much interest. Malay is compulsory in schools and in most official settings, but that didn't keep my interest beyond passing exams. I could speak proper Mandarin and proper Malay just like how I could speak proper English, but I just couldn't be bothered because I don't have the deep interest in those languages. It was later in my teens that I discovered other FOREIGN languages and how easily I could pick up a language IF I put my heart and effort to it (as opposed to my brains being resistant to languages of no interest to me). Hence is the beginning of my lingual obsession (too strong a word perhaps? but that's how it seems to me).

So yeah.. I don't think it justifiable to blame the learning of one language as being the deteriorating factor of another language. If you're not good at it to begin with (English--as in the case of those classmates), learning a foreign language at the side doesn't make it any worse. You had and still have, the chance to improvise because the opportunity to do so is available, as English is a widely used language. Then again, if you can't deal with the languages frequently in use around you, there's no point of you in taking up a foreign language at all.


As part of UNESCO's 60th anniversary celebration, 60 themes had been designated every week starting Sept 5, 2005 to November 4, 2006. This week's theme is MULTILINGUALISM (20/2 - 26/2). Half of the world's 6000 languages are in danger of disappearing in just a few generations. In recognition of International Mother Language Day, UNESCO underlines the importance of linguistic diversity and preservation of cultural traditions.




(Post a new comment)


[info]mujigae012
2006-02-20 10:47 am UTC (link)
Geeez, unni.. Totally agreed about you Malaysians and your English!! I could never able to decipher what you guys are talking about! It seems to come so natural to you people! Even Aussie-bred Evy tends to lapse into Manglish when she’s talking to her Malaysian friends. But I notice also how quickly you guys can switch from broken English to flawless no-weird-accent English in matters of seconds! That’s really cool, although I can see not every Malaysian can do that. Ughh.. reminds me of that b!tch at my uni with her pathetic fake accent… don’t know if you remember me talking about her. She was here for a year.. “twinning program”? and she’s typically a Manglish speaker with a totally bizarre wannabe Aussie accent! She just can’t speak intelligible English even when she tried really hard. And man, she’s loud with her Cantonese dialect!! >(

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-21 12:48 pm UTC (link)
Oh yeah.. I remember her.

FAKE ACCENT HUH?? That's one of my peeves. There're many of her type here in M'sia.. they think that speaking English means there's need for some sort of accent to go with it... and they all ended up with horrible pseudo-American/-British accents that are just HUMOROUS to the regular listener. Such embarrassment! Tsk!

It's still beyond my comprehension how some people spend only a year in Australia and they think they can speak like Steve Irving! "Crikey!" -__-;;



(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]mujigae012
2006-02-23 03:07 am UTC (link)
HAHA!! I know what you mean!! It's hilarious! Some of them came to Aussie shore with that fake accent already intact, because they watched Crocodile Hunter back where they came from and thought they will blend in if they talk that way!! xD

STUPID @SSES!!

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-21 01:11 am UTC (link)
Did it occur to anyone that other than personal interest and opportunity, a person need LINGUISTIC TALENT as well? Some people are destined to be monolingual their whole lives because they lack the talent to overcome a foreign language.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-21 12:49 pm UTC (link)
Oh yes.. that's true. But who are you?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-22 04:13 am UTC (link)
Sorry, it's Tyler.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]mauvecloud
2006-02-21 10:13 am UTC (link)
Talking about variants and dialects, a person really needs to be strong in the main language before tackling the dialects (in my consideration, the Arkansas dialect and Singlish have equal standing).

But the facts is, your average 'English-speaking' malaysian/singaporean learns manglish/singlish first before (s)he gets exposed to the 'standard' (let's say American) english. Unless (s)he watches more TV, and earlier than (s)he befriends the english-speaking people around her.

On the other hand, what about people who grew up using non-english languages? Like me, I spoke no practical English for the first 18 years of my life, since my peers are all dialect-using people (hokkien). So I learnt English first from the 'telly' (the horrible aussie slang for TV), then I learnt Singlish when I came to S'pore. Hopefully I will NEVER learn Australian English. It's just plain atrocious and so provincial.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-21 12:52 pm UTC (link)
Your command of English seems very good to me. I'm guessing you can speak non-accented English well when the situations call for it? That is, no lah, lor, leh and no fake angmoh accent.



(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]mauvecloud
2006-02-24 08:05 am UTC (link)
I dunno.
"no lah, lor, leh" prohibitions are easy to manage i suppose.
by fake angmoh accent i will assume you mean overdoing the no-accent thing.
as a rule, i speak singlish in informal situations (also with ppl likely to understand them - malaysians, s'poreans, expatriates who have been in s'pore for long period of time). with angmohs and chinese ppl from elsewhere, better play it safe and speak standard english (i suppose the accent SBS newsreaders use is ok.) the main point is to facilitate understanding and avoid misunderstanding, which is wat (hehe) communication is all about after all.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-26 12:18 pm UTC (link)
“Wat”.. I think it’s among those words that result from massive SMSing. :P
I used to type “jes” for “just”…because I used it in SMS too.. but it caused misunderstanding in a forum (thought I meant a person’s name “Jes”) that I stopped using that short form. Communication breakdown there. ~_~

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-23 06:45 am UTC (link)
Well, about the stereotyping, it's not only the angmohs who think Malaysians speak bad English. A lot of Singaporeans have this perception too, i.e. the standard of our English (even Mandarin) is worse than theirs. You get the "Oh my! You say you're from Malaysia? You can speak pretty good English!" from Singaporeans too.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-24 01:36 am UTC (link)
Really? I don't get much of that from S'poreans.. Those whom I know has got the tendency to blab away in Singlish so they're not in any position to criticize us. xP

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]divabat
2006-02-23 07:58 am UTC (link)
Trivia: International Mother Language Day was based on the Bangladeshi national holiday of the same concept. :D

Anyway. for me personally, I don't even know what sort of language to call my own. My first language is English; I grew up exposed to it all around me, I'm most fluent in it, I create in that language. My native language is Malay, since I was born and brought up in an Malay-speaking country and was in Malay schools for 11 years. Now it's OK, but still a bit rusty. My mother tongue is Bengali, for that's where my heritage lies - yet I am on a child's level with the language.

It also seems to me that my fluency of the language depends on where I am. In Malaysia, I lapse into Manglish/Singlish because it comes naturally. To foreigners, I speak proper English (perhaps with some slang - yes, slang, not "slang" which really means accent) and maybe slip in a "lah" or two but that goes away quickly. In Bangladesh my Bengali fluency increases exponentionally.

There are a lot of factors.

(sorry for the ramble)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-24 01:37 am UTC (link)
Ooh.. thanks for sharing that piece of info.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-23 09:11 am UTC (link)
Hi, came to your site via kurios1978. I used to go for basic Jap and Korean lessons but due to lack of practise, I can remember vaguely just a few words now. The thing about learning Jap is that my grasp of the English language did not deteriorate but rather took control almost instinctively whenever I wanted to say the Jap version, Katagana. It's almost next to impossible to shake off something you have grown so used to over the years and I admit it hindered my progress in Japanese lessons because somehow, sometimes I just forget and slipped back into English again.

DR

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-24 01:41 am UTC (link)
Hi, welcome~

About lapsing into English when learning katakana words, I used to have that problem too. I think it's easier to say some words in English than the often-lengthy katakana version. Most Japanese I know understood anyway, when I pronounced certain loanwords in its original form (English).

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]yexueli
2006-02-25 01:28 pm UTC (link)
Hi. I came here via BlogsMalaysia.com.. Your entry is among one of the recommended entries, just in case you didn't know that.

It's great to hear about the pros and cons of using Manglish. Being a fellow Malaysian, I am often posed with the same scenario.

I've been living in New Zealand for 3+ years now, and I find it rather offensive every time someone is surprised at my command of English.

I can understand the initial surprise, since many Asian students in NZ have difficulty in spoken English. What I absolutely cannot tolerate is the fact that despite knowing me for months, you're still "surprised" by my English.. Worse still are the angmohs who insist you're wrong in your pronunciation, when in fact, there are different pronunciations to the same word. For example, the word 'often'.. some pronounce it as 'oh-fern', while others pronounce it as 'of-tern'. I pronounce it the first way, but NZers pronounce it the second way, and as a result, have been ridiculed for pronouncing it differently. Is it really that hard to accept the fact that an Asian might be right in terms of pronunciation?

I was on a trip with friends lately, and an Australian woman I met exclaimed, "Oh, you can speak good English!" while I was still in the middle of my sentence. I found that highly offensive, especially when the woman revealed she was a teacher. I would think a teacher would be more understanding than most.

It's quite hard to be close to angmohs, sometimes, since you have to change the way you usually speak. The language barrier is too prominent in a relationship to ignore.

However, I find it quite fun sometimes, this switching of speaking styles. With Malaysians and Singaporeans, I would speak in Manglish. With angmohs, I would speak in English with no accent, but with some NZ slang. With Chinese, I tend to develop a slight Chinese accent (oh, the horror!), as it's easier to socialise with them. The funny thing is, even with Chinese, there's so many different variants and dialects that I have to switch my way of speaking.. i.e.: different way of speaking Chinese with people from China, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc.

Fortunately, people in university aren't as annoying as the people I've encountered in high school. They treat me like any other angmoh, and that's what I'm asking for, really.

About people in Malaysia who adopt fake UK/US/Aus etc. accents, I don't think all should be blamed. I have a friend who has been studying in an international school for years, and has an odd mix of UK/US accent. It's really to do with the fact that most of her classmates are angmohs. However, I really detest people who put on fake accents to impress others.

I have met a few Malaysians who adopt a NZ accent within months because they're ashamed of their Manglish accent. I find that so utterly horrible. Hey, I say be proud of who we are! Every language and dialect should be equal. There is no inferiority among languages and dialects. For others to accept who we are, we have to accept ourselves first.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Welcome to the LJ~
[info]rosesnchaos
2006-02-26 12:19 pm UTC (link)
With Chinese, I tend to develop a slight Chinese accent (oh, the horror!), as it's easier to socialise with them. The funny thing is, even with Chinese, there's so many different variants and dialects that I have to switch my way of speaking.. i.e.: different way of speaking Chinese with people from China, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc.

That’s what I do at work. I use Malaysian accent so that the local mostly-Chinese-educated customers would understand me (Bearing in mind, my Mandarin is probably too broken for them to understand. Haha!). When I’m facing with Chinese people from other Asian countries (especially Taiwan and China) and my other foreign friends who speak English as second/third language, I tend to speak accent-less English and sometimes slow word-by-word pronunciation so that they could catch what I’m saying.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

malaysians in multiple language format...
(Anonymous)
2006-03-04 04:20 am UTC (link)
hello!

there is a certain trend among the other responses towards malaysians and their language capabilities- i have found that many of my hk, taiwan, china pals think very highly of us overseas chinese (malaysians and singaporeans) because of our range of language proficiencies.

i am rather glad i am from such a multicultural background. although they cannot understand why i think our food is quite something to be proud of, can't blame them. they know only of their brand of 'purely' chinese food, growing up in their respective countries.

*drools and misses home immediately*

ps. sorry about the anon status- i don't have open id or a livejournal account. http://spaces.msn.com/members/deranged-orange
on another note, i was directed here by blogsmalaysia.com =)

(Reply to this)


Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…